Ian Sarginson

Today I talk to Ian Sarginson. Ian is a curate at St James Church in Clitheroe.

https://www.stjamesclitheroe.co.uk/

Transcript

Nicola: Welcome to Cold Water Podcast. I’m Nicola Halton. We all know the importance of getting out there and doing a great work for Jesus. In this podcast we will learn more about the people who are involved in changing lives for good, for God. I would like to welcome Ian Sarginson to the Cold Water Podcast. You are a church of England vicar at St James’ Church in Clitheroe.

Ian: yes

Nicola: Because the last time I met you, you were in Billingham. 

Ian: So yes its quite a long story but I was in Billingham, grew up and going to New Life Church from the age of 13 which is a Pentecostal Church and yes, from there I went to Litchifield and did an internship, a similar church and then to Southport again in another Pentecostal church and worked as a youth worker there and different things and whilst I was there I met my now wife, Kate and after 12 years there she got a job in Cumbria. So we had to relocate to I had to find a job, and I found one in a Church of England Church for a youth worker so I looked into that. It seemed a good fit, they seemed to be looking for what some things I could offer so I applied, got the job. And it wasn’t much different, there was a few differences that I knew because I didn’t really have a lot to do with the Church of England before. I knew about it. I knew some people that went there and had some friends. But I found out when I was working there, there people were saying to me, you should get ordained but I thought, “No I do not want to be a Church of England Vicar. That is the last thing I want to do.” Because I had these preconceived ideas about what a church of England vicar was. And then I came to a point where I felt it was time to move on and that I wanted to plant a Church I think. So I spoke to Kate about it and said, “I want to do this.” And she was concerned, she didn’t just want me to be a renegade and go off and plant my own church without any covering or authority and at the same time people kept saying, “You should do this, you should pursue ordination in the Church of England.” And Kate said, “Oh I think that is a good idea.” And I was like, “That is really not what I want to do. I’m not what the church of England are looking for, they are certainly not what I’m looking for  but I’ll pursue this, push these doors, see what God says and then once these doors are closed I can do what I really want to do.” But the doors never closed, they just kept opening, people kept welcoming me and saying yes, we really believe that this is right. So when that happens I just have to be obedient and keep going.

Nicola: Keep going, that’s it, that’s it. I know that… I’m a minister in the Church of England as well, I’m a leader of praise and worship and the doors do fling wide open for you. So I do understand exactly that there is a role and a calling in the Church of England, you know which is going to take me onto the next question. How important do you think it is for clergy as well as everybody to have an encounter with Jesus? 

Ian: Yes, I think that is vital in terms of developing faith, for me it started as a youngster when I was first presented with the message of Jesus. I couldn’t brush it off, without exploring it for myself 

Nicola: Yes

Ian: and even on a cognitive level, the more I explored the more I read, the more I tried to understand it just developed. There wasn’t like a lightening and a voice from heaven, but the more the question grew I thought what if. So I wasn’t like I met Jesus and what if. My question was what if this is true, and the more I read, that question grew, the significance of what if this is true became bigger and bigger. And then from there I deduced that I have to take the opportunity, or take the chance of step and say right, then I’m going to put my faith in this and see what happens. 

Nicola: Yes

Ian: and from there yeah, I’ve just always felt justified and always felt what it right, not always certain in myself but yeah, it just developed and grown and my faith has developed and grown through that. 

Nicola: That is wonderful. Thank you. Thank you. How has lockdown been for you. Has your church managed to reach out to people during lockdown? 

Ian: Yes, there is two things because personally it was a bit frustrating because I am just in my final year of curacy now so I was just into it, feeling settled, feeling really knowing peoples names, knowing the town that I am in, getting comfortable in my role and in my skin and then we get locked down. But the church was already.. we already streamed our services online. We were already quite good with social’s and so we were in a good position to respond well. So not a lot of the service stuff needed to change about from maybe the style but we have learned a few things from it. We gained people watching our services through lockdown so we had to identify how do we reach these people? How do we get to know them rather than just being viewing statistics so we try and develop relationships for them as we have to identify those who are lonely and isolated through this because some people aren’t comfortable with technology. Some people live on their own, some people are vulnerable so we had to work out how we can help and support them and then we wanted to be missional, we wanted to let people know we were thinking about them, not just the people in the church but the people in the community. So we have devised a plan and a strategy about being intentional about being missional, key points throughout the year. 

Nicola: Yes wonderful, thank you. What is your hope for the future for you as a minister? 

Ian: My hope is just to be… it’s always been to same. Just to be salt and light wherever I am, whatever role I inhabit, whatever town, environment or culture that I am in but some of that is shaped for me at the moment, or plan to be, so I am coming to the end of my curacy and then they will be looking to give me my first incumbency where I will be the main leader in the church.

Nicola: Yes

Ian: SO I just hope that I can do that well. Because I think that each stage of this, particulary in the church of England there has been a tendency towards imposter syndrome because it is not the church I grew up in, there is a lot of things that still I don’t understand so I’m thinking that I’m going to be found out sooner or later. So I am hoping that that doesn’t come out but I hope to do as good a job as I can, be approachable and challenge some to the preconceived ideas that people have of the church and faith and Christianity. 

Nicola: That’s amazing thank you. Because we do have preconceived ideas. All of us and even… it doesn’t matter how ecumenical you are, you still have preconceived ideas of how things are. Scars as well.

Ian: I didn’t want to be a church of England vicar because I have this fixed idea so I was quite prejudice towards them, and I realised… once I realised there was a place for me in that. That kid of dissolved over time but I was.. yeah I did have my own preconceived ideas. 

Nicola: Thank you and how would you introduce somebody to Jesus. 

Ian: SO I would start by saying forget everything that you think you know and start again with the basics, so just read the gospel and read what kind of person you see there. Read the claims that he made. Read the claims that was made about Him. Read the things that was said about Him afterwards and then start there. Start there and create your own questions because otherwise we just become to influenced. Even though some of these influences are good from the songs that we sing in primary school and all of these things they kind of form an idea of what Jesus is and we create this image that he was white, with long flowing hair and a neatly trimmed beard. That he was dead nice and sometimes even a bit soft and uninteresting and a bit vanilla really so I would say, ignore that and go back to the beginning and look at the raw, passionate, intriguing and dynamic person that you read about and start from there. 

Nicola: And you haven’t done the cliché, he’s a tract, here’s a sinners prayer of you go. Now your done. That’s I we have done you. 

Ian: Yes

Nicola: You know we do have that sort of routine in evangelical churches of doing that and you are left to your own devices to some extent to find out for your self you have actually said explore now and we can do the other steps later. 

Ian: Yes because I think the church often.. we make too may assumptions or we try and do it for people and I think that it has got to be people’s … people have to come to it from where they are at. 

Nicola: Yes

Ian: and they have to explore for themselves because it has to be based on something that you have explored. If someone tells you something it you hear a message and you say yes, if something in you wants to respond immediately fantastic but I think sometimes we tell people what to think rather than tell them what to ask or tell them what to explore.

Nicola: yes

Ian: because I just think it will be more real, more authentic it if you looked at it yourself and explored it and come with your questions yourself and come with your doubts and insecurities and worries that you have and the concerns and then something like an alpha course off the back of that is good but I would say before you do that get something solid that is based on what you think, what you believe, what you have questioned.

Nicola: Yes, and alpha courses are fantastic, tracts are fantastic, the sinner’s prayer ias all very important, but we shouldn’t have a routine and we should allow people. People are questioners now, we have got a culture of questioning things, people are very exploratory so they don’t want to be forced into a mindset and a stereotype. They want to come to Christ, sensitively, themselves and that is what I have noticed and the Church of England is the only… our vicar said that the church of England is the only organisation that is there for its non-members . You know, lots of organisations are there for the members only whereas this is there for its non-members. So reaching the none members an encouraging them, that is the whole ethos of the Church of England. That is what I feel. How do you feel about that statement? 

Ian: Yes I mean ideological it is and it should be but I’m thinking in practise I have seen so many times, its not just the Church of England but I’ve seen so may times where churches are Sunday centric they are so focussed on, its for us and we don’t want this because this is changing or and its…. All focussed on the Sunday services on those who go to church and I think often times the way that we do church is a barrier to those that don’t.. that haven’t been to church culturally. 

Ian: So I think we need to be open, we need to change things, we need to explain things and it should be for the non-members and obviously the other 6 days a week are our doors open to serve our community. 

Nicola: I have a passion for children’s work. What children’s work do you have going on in St James church. So we have a fantastic children’s and families work, so we have Helen who is our children’s and family pastor and she has a fantastic team but there is just so much so there is from parents with young children, called baby fishes and we have little fishes with the toddlers and rocking where they come and have fun like a youth club style and then there is different things on a Sunday where there is different classes age appropriate things on a Sunday, then we have during lockdown we have launched Forest Church basically where families come together and have a church service and worship outside exploring nature and connecting to that some kind of teaching and that has been really good so much so that initially it helped as a response to covid being outside but now it is something that we are weaving into our practise going forward as well. 

Nicola: Wonderful. Outside churches is very popular at them moment because of covid isn’t it so that is absolutely brilliant. Yeah so is there anything you would like to add about your church and what you are doing at the moment. 

Ian: No I mean you can find it online if you want to check it out. I mean I’m a big fan. But yeah if you just google St James Clitheroe you can find our services there. You can find us on facebook, on twitter, I think we have even got a tick tock account although no one has used it yet but yes just get in touch. I think yes, it’s a good church to be part of. It’s a good church to work for. We are not perfect we have got challenges but we are trying our best to know God and to make God known really. 

Nicola: So if anyone would like to get in touch with Ian just contact St James’ church in Clitheroe and also don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast. Well thank you very much Ian, that was wonderful. Well thank you. 

Ian: No problem.

Nicola: Thank you. Thank you for listening to the Cold Water Podcast. Please remember to subscribe and join next week.