Dr Steven Jenkins

Dr Steven Jenkins shares his remarkable testimony and talks about some of the books he has written. 

Transcript

Transcript 

00:00:00 Nicola 

I would like to welcome Steven Jenkins to the Coldwater podcast. 

00:00:04 Nicola 

Hello Steven. 

00:00:05 Stephen 

Hello, thanks for having me. 

00:00:06 Nicola  

It's OK I I just want to ask how did you get to know Jesus as your Lord and saviour? 

00:00:14 Stephen 

It was a long time ago. 

00:00:15 Stephen 

A journey of faith, it's quite a long journey. 

00:00:20 Stephen 

I wasn't brought up in a typically Christian home. 

00:00:24 Stephen 

Which surprises a few people and my parents were good moral, moral people, and but I wouldn't say it was a  traditionally, you know, Christian upbringing. 

00:00:35 Stephen 

But my first experience of God, UM. 

00:00:40 Stephen 

Not that I. 

00:00:41 Stephen 

Can remember much about it was when I was about two months short of my second birthday. 

00:00:47 Stephen 

Christmas time 1969. 

00:00:52 Stephen 

I I was born a man with a a very rare bone complaint and my my bones were all very brittle. 

00:01:03 Stephen 

The soft spot on my head and had not healed and I my parents were told that I would never walk and had to be carried everywhere and I understand that they had to get rid of most of the furniture in the home. 

00:01:19 Stephen 

'cause I couldn't run the risk of banging my head and doing serious brain damage, so this was the state that I was in and Boxing Day. 

00:01:29 Stephen 

The 1969 I was taken to the home of a Christian lady and a pentecostal Christian lady. 

00:01:37 Stephen 

Uh, who's been a great friend of the family for for many years now? 

00:01:42 Stephen 

And  when I was there that evening with with my with 

00:01:47 Stephen 

With my family there was some young men there who were getting ready to go out onto the mission field. 

00:01:53 Stephen 

And they saw the state that I was in. 

00:01:56 Stephen 

And very simply that evening they they laid hands upon me and said, well, let let's pray for Stephen and let's let's pray that God will do something and they prayed for me that that evening. 

00:02:09 Stephen 

And I I'm led to believe that the very next day I started to take my first steps and you and knew instantaneous healing, which certainly got the attention of my family and got my attention. 

00:02:23 Stephen 

Because really from that moment I was aware of a supreme being. 

00:02:28 Stephen 

I was. 

00:02:29 Stephen 

Where there was someone out there. 

00:02:31 Stephen 

And it led really to, uh, a long search for for God. 

00:02:36 Stephen 

I didn't know the terminology. 

00:02:39 Stephen 

As I said, I I didn't go to church. 

00:02:41 Stephen 

I I didn't know the terminology, but I knew that there was something more. 

00:02:46 Stephen 

I went through school and I I remember at secondary school being very interested. 

00:02:52 Stephen 

One day, when given a Gideons Bible in assembly. 

00:02:56 Stephen 

Yeah, and we were given a New Testament and I don't know what the other kids did with theirs, but I I I remember taking taking it home. 

00:03:05 Stephen 

It was a good news version. 

00:03:08 Stephen 

And sort of the age of 13, 14. 

00:03:10 Stephen 

I guess actually reading the Bible. 

00:03:12 Stephen 

Yeah, for myself and underlining even and underlining certain passages. 

00:03:19 Stephen 

That that Jesus. 

00:03:21 Stephen 

Uh, Jesus made and I I. 

00:03:25 Stephen 

I really was searching for God my my sister then started to attend church and she was taken to church by this lady in whose home I received my my healing. 

00:03:39 Stephen 

So she was taken to an Assemblies of God Church. 

00:03:42 Stephen 

Uhm, and really started to enjoy it and uhm, I was approaching. 

00:03:49 Stephen 

I guess the age of 16. 

00:03:50 Stephen 

I probably had just turned 16 

00:03:52 Stephen 

and my sister invited me to a meeting, a church service. 

00:04:01 Stephen 

UM, wasn't in a church, but it was in a football stadium. 

00:04:07 Stephen 

In Bristol, where I'm from, the Ashton Gate, Bristol City ground because that week a man called Billy Graham and Evangelist from the United States was conducting some meetings. 

00:04:15 Nicola 

Right 

00:04:22 Stephen 

And I decided to go out of curiosity. 

00:04:26 Stephen 

I was a big football fan, so going to a football stadium was a bit of an attraction as well. 

00:04:32 Stephen 

So I went with her on the opening afternoon on the Saturday. This was now in 1984 what became known. 

00:04:41 Stephen 

As Mission England and. 

00:04:42 Stephen 

Billy Graham traveled the length and length and breadth of the United Kingdom for several months, and I went that afternoon and was was completely blown away. 

00:04:56 Stephen 

20,000 people were there in this football stadium and I was attracted by the singing. I was attracted by the the testimony that was given and really by the people I went along with, I was very attracted by by their lifestyle. 

00:05:16 Stephen 

And then when. 

00:05:16 Stephen 

This man stood up on a platform and I could see him. 

00:05:21 Stephen 

In the distance. 

00:05:22 Stephen 

In the middle of this football pitch, Billy Graham, he preached, I guess, for about 20, 25 minutes, but it was as though he was speaking just to me. 

00:05:34 Stephen 

Yeah, and I responded that afternoon didn't understand everything. 

00:05:40 Stephen 

I still don't understand everything and but I responded and said 

00:05:46 Stephen 

God, you are the one I've been looking for. 

00:05:49 Stephen 

Can you do something with me? 

00:05:51 Stephen 

I was about to leave school and I had no job prospects. 

00:05:56 Stephen 

I didn't do well at school. 

00:05:58 Stephen 

I particulary like school and I didn't know what I was going to do with my life and I said God if you're there, do something with me. 

00:06:07 Stephen 

And take my life and and make it glorifying to you. 

00:06:13 Stephen 

And and I went along to every meeting actually, not just the first meeting. 

00:06:18 Stephen 

I went along to every meeting and I was completely blown away. 

00:06:22 Stephen 

I felt I wanted to respond every time the appeal was given. 

00:06:25 Stephen 

And I just. 

00:06:26 Stephen 

Knew this is what I was was looking for and that then set me. 

00:06:31 Stephen 

On a sort of a long. 

00:06:33 Stephen 

Journey that was, you know 37 

00:06:35 Stephen 

years ago, and. 

00:06:38 Stephen 

When I joined the church an Assemblies of God Church and I 

00:06:44 Stephen 

guess never really looked back. 

00:06:46 Stephen 

I felt a  strong call to the ministry. 

00:06:48 Stephen 

And I’ve gone on from there. 

00:06:50 Stephen 

Really.   

00:06:51 Stephen 

You know the joy. 

00:06:52 Stephen 

Is that my parents found Christ in latter years and other cousins have come to Christ, so it's a bit of a God breaking into the whole family, really. 

00:07:03 Stephen 

Which was 

00:07:04 Stephen 

wonderful, a wonderful thing so. 

00:07:06 Stephen 

That was how I found the Lord. 

00:07:09 Stephen 

Many years ago, yeah. 

00:07:10 Nicola 

Yes, that that's a lovely testimony. 

00:07:13 Nicola 

It's it's. 

00:07:13 Nicola 

It's amazing and just yeah, the the the toddler just transforming into  

00:07:19 Nicola 

You know you’re a lecturer 

00:07:20 Nicola 

And you know, Pastor, and you've done all these 

00:07:24 Nicola 

All these wonderful things. 

00:07:25 Nicola 

So God is really, really used. 

00:07:27 Nicola 

You and is still using you now Stephen 

00:07:29 Nicola 

and so a really beautiful testimony. 

00:07:33 Nicola 

You've written a book called Tongues of Men and Angels 

00:07:37 Nicola 

Would you like to tell us 

00:07:38 Nicola 

abit about that book. 

00:07:39 

Yes of. 

00:07:40 Stephen 

Course, uhm. 

00:07:43 Stephen 

As I said, I I've I've been a. 

00:07:44 Stephen 

Lecturer I I went on and. 

00:07:47 Stephen 

Really the t 

00:07:48 Stephen 

Rest of the story is that I 

00:07:49 Stephen 

failed all my. 

00:07:49 Stephen 

exams at school and and had no purpose and. 

00:07:50 Nicola 

Right, OK? 

00:07:54 Stephen 

And God found me a job and I. 

00:07:57 Stephen 

Uh, I went then to university study business and felt a very strong call to ministry went through Bible College. 

00:08:04 Stephen 

Then I did a Masters degree and went on and did a doctorate. 

00:08:07 Stephen 

So what gave me a real desire to study I I found a subject I was really interested in. 

00:08:14 Stephen 

I suppose and and. 

00:08:17 Stephen 

I you know I was a lecturer. 

00:08:19 Stephen 

On the faculty of. 

00:08:20 Stephen 

Massey Hall Bible College 18 years altogether. 

00:08:25 Stephen 

Uhm, and had the chance to teach 

00:08:28 Stephen 

some wonderful subjects 

00:08:29 Stephen 

and after being at Mattersey I went on to become a missions director for a wonderful charity called 1 by 1. 

00:08:40 Stephen 

And now I'm I'm mainly itinerant writing and traveling, and submissions work, and that sort of thing, and I, I guess, really over the last 10 years. 

00:08:50 Stephen 

I've had in my mind. 

00:08:52 Stephen 

UM, about about five books that I've I've. 

00:08:57 Stephen 

Sort of been sort of swirling around in my. 

00:08:59 Stephen 

Mind and I I. 

00:09:00 Stephen 

Wanted a chance just to write them but never. 

00:09:03 Stephen 

Really had the chance I was. 

00:09:04 Stephen 

Busy with other things and during lockdown that that affected all of us. 

00:09:10 Stephen 

I had this wonderful opportunity to actually put pen to paper and and write and over the course of about 14 months I guess. 

00:09:15 Nicola 

I don't. 

00:09:23 Stephen 

I I had the opportunity of writing five books, yeah, and they just flowed really and the first book I I did right was, as you mentioned, book a little book and called a tongues, Tongues of men and angels available on Amazon. 

00:09:39 Stephen 

They are actually all on Amazon. 

00:09:42 Stephen 

And this was. 

00:09:43 Stephen 

Born out of a curiosity I had with the gift of speaking in tongues really from my. 

00:09:51 Stephen 

Early days of being in a Pentecostal church 

00:09:54 Stephen 

And hearing utterances and tongues and being fascinated. 

00:09:59 Stephen 

By by these utterances and the interpretations given, and then being baptized in the spirit a little while later as a teenager, and speaking in tongues myself, and then becoming a Pentecostal pastor, encouraging it in churches. 

00:10:16 Stephen 

Then having the opportunity to study. 

00:10:19 Stephen 

really studied the subject at masters level. 

00:10:23 Stephen 

I did a dissertation on speaking in tongues. 

00:10:26 Stephen 

I've really been fascinated with it and various aspects, and so I I worked at this book. 

00:10:34 Stephen 

Uhm, I just over. 

00:10:36 Stephen 

A year ago now hopefully are very easy to read book, but it tackles certain areas such as. 

00:10:44 Stephen 

How should tongues be used in the life of the believer? Privately. 

00:10:49 Stephen 

How should tongues be used publicly in church? 

00:10:53 Stephen 

Uhm, are they a real 

00:10:57 Stephen 

earthly languages have the potential to be understood. 

00:11:01 Stephen 

Or are they heavenly languages or? 

00:11:05 Stephen 

You know quite what? 

00:11:06 Stephen 

What are they? 

00:11:09 Stephen 

That sort of thing, is it the evidence that someone has been baptized in the Holy Spirit and? 

00:11:17 Stephen 

So I I. 

00:11:18 Stephen 

Looked at various. 

00:11:18 Stephen 

Aapects of that and it 

00:11:21 Stephen 

I understand it's a book that could be. 

00:11:23 Stephen 

Read in in an hour. 

00:11:24 Stephen 

And a half. 

00:11:25 Stephen 

One timed it and they said, I read. 

00:11:27 Stephen 

This in an hour and a half. 

00:11:29 Stephen 

And so it it's hopefully that easy to read, but it's designed in such a way as to sort of really be studied as scriptures to look up. 

00:11:39 Stephen 

And at the end there's some FAQ as well about this whole area of speaking in tongues, which I you know I personally believe 

00:11:50 Stephen 

is often misunderstood and misused, and you're on my travels. 

00:11:57 Stephen 

It's various churches at 

00:11:59 Stephen 

home and abroad. 

00:12:01 Stephen 

I I tend to see this gift not used very much in the life of the church. 

00:12:08 Stephen 

And and I I sort of look at that, why I think that is and really encouraging, especially Pentecostal churches. 

00:12:18 Stephen 

And Pentecostal believers to all believers actually come to to rediscover or discover for the first time, this wonderful gift that God is made available. 

00:12:29 Stephen 

To all true believers. 

00:12:31 Stephen 

Yes, all spirit filled believers have the opportunity. 

00:12:36 Stephen 

Uh, maybe not to give a message in tongues in the church, but certainly to use it in in their personal lives. 

00:12:44 Stephen 

Paul says he who speaks in tongues edifies himself, and I I learned all of emphasis on that in my book that actually the gift of tongues, private use of tongues. 

00:12:58 Stephen 

Can edify us and build this up. 

00:13:01 Stephen 

You didn't say you will feel edified, but you will be edified, yeah? 

00:13:07 Stephen 

Something happens to us. 

00:13:10 Stephen 

And you know, I've heard of ministries that have been radically changed by people that such as Jackie Pullinger and I read about her. 

00:13:20 Stephen 

In Hong Kong. 

00:13:21 Stephen 

Uh, she's decided to speak in tongues 15 minutes a day. 

00:13:26 Stephen 

Yeah, and it revolutionized not just her life at but her ministry 

00:13:32 Stephen 

And in the midst of very discouraging and challenging ministry situations, she felt that she had this strength. 

00:13:41 Stephen 

Really that came just by building herself up in faith. 

00:13:46 Stephen 

On a regular basis, so it that's something that I sort of look at in the book, and it's really not, not. 

00:13:52 Stephen 

Hopefully an academic book. 

00:13:54 Stephen 

Yeah, it hopefully it's a readable book and helps us all to rediscover or discover for the first time. 

00:14:03 Stephen 

This wonderful gift that is often misunderstood. 

00:14:07 Stephen 

and misused, and I think sometimes when we misunderstand something or 

00:14:14 Stephen 

Uh, we see it misused. 

00:14:16 Stephen 

Yeah or abused we we tend them to steer away from it and not not use it instead of trying to understand how. 

00:14:25 Stephen 

use it. 

00:14:25 Stephen 

Properly, we tend to go to the other extreme and and not use it at all, which I think is equally equally wrong really so. 

00:14:35 Stephen 

It's a book to help us. 

00:14:37 Stephen 

To rediscover it and hopefully use it in our own lives and see our own lives and our churches revolutionized. 

00:14:44 Nicola 

It  

00:14:45 Nicola 

It really helped me it. 

00:14:46 Nicola 

Opened up my spirit around you straight away. 

00:14:48 Nicola 

That it, you know it was. 

00:14:49 Nicola 

It was helpful, but it's something that I don't. 

00:14:51 Nicola 

Do much of. 

00:14:52 Nicola 

Is praying in tongues and I do have that ability to do that? 

00:14:56 Nicola 

I used to when I first became a 

00:14:58 Nicola 

A Christian  

00:14:59 

Right? 

00:15:00 Nicola 

But it's something that you sort of like busyness of life gets in the way. 

00:15:05 Nicola 

And that to me, is the biggest, it you know. 

00:15:09 Nicola 

I would lean on people to pray with me in English, but I generally don;t 

00:15:14 Nicola 

And I, I think it does the. 

00:15:15 Nicola 

culture of the church uses tongues, then you don't feel as 

00:15:22 Nicola 

different when you are playing in tongues, so I think there's a 

00:15:26 Nicola 

Little bit of. 

00:15:26 Nicola 

That as well. 

00:15:27 Nicola 

So thank you for that book I have read. 

00:15:30 Nicola 

It's great and you not want to keep as well so. 

00:15:33 Nicola 

Wanted to lean on so thank you. 

00:15:36 Nicola 

You've also written from Pentecost to a Pentecostal movement,  

00:15:41 Nicola 

Yes, would you like to talk about that? 

00:15:43 Stephen 

Of course, yes. 

00:15:44 Stephen 

Thank you and. 

00:15:45 Stephen 

This is the second book I wrote. 

00:15:48 Stephen 

This was some really born out of a course that I talked at Mattersey  and actually other places as well. 

00:15:54 Stephen 

I had the joy of. 

00:15:55 Stephen 

I've going to Nairobi Pentecostal Bible College to teach students over there on a couple of occasions and Africa school admissions in South Africa and various other places I've had the joy teaching 

00:16:09 Stephen 

church history and church history was a subject sort of thrust upon me when I was on the faculty. 

00:16:17 Stephen 

Uhm, the previous lecture lecturer was taken ill and had a stroke and I was asked whether I. 

00:16:26 Stephen 

Could step in and teach. 

00:16:28 Stephen 

A course be a level on church history and I'd studied church history. 

00:16:33 Stephen 

Undergraduate level and was interested in it, but I wasn't really an expert in it at all, so I I decided to take that on teach the course. 

00:16:43 Stephen 

And you know the the best way to. 

00:16:46 Stephen 

Learn is to teach other people. 

00:16:48 Stephen 

And so knowing I had. 

00:16:49 Stephen 

To teach this course on a Pentecostal history and church history. 

00:16:55 Stephen 

Uhm, really made me have to study the subject and I was just fascinated and greatly enjoyed studying it and actually greatly enjoyed teaching. 

00:17:05 Stephen 

the subject, and so I I turned my notes into a book, which again hopefully is not an academic book but just gets people into this whole subject of church history. 

00:17:22 Stephen 

The book deals with a 9. 

00:17:25 Stephen 

eras, 9 sections of church history are going from the day of Pentecost. 

00:17:32 Stephen 

AD30 right to the 20th century Azusa St. Outpouring in Los Angeles in 1906 

00:17:40 Stephen 

and a little bit beyond that and filling in some of the subjects in between. 

00:17:47 Stephen 

So I deal with the early church era persecution that 

00:17:52 Stephen 

they went through. 

00:17:53 Stephen 

I dealt, I deal with the medieval period, which was a very dark age. 

00:17:59 Stephen 

Uhm, but even in the midst of the the Dark Age, there was some some lights, some bright lights, and I bring out some certain characters that were shining lights for Jesus in a very dark age. 

00:18:05 

Yes, yes. 

00:18:12 Stephen 

I deal with. 

00:18:13 Stephen 

Uhm, Martin Luther and the the Protestant Reformation. 

00:18:20 Stephen 

People like Wesley and Whitfield with the great awakenings on both sides of the Atlantic 

00:18:25 Stephen 

And then leading through to the Azure St. 

00:18:29 Stephen 

Outpouring and and and what happened since then with? 

00:18:35 Stephen 

The birth of. 

00:18:35 Stephen 

The Pentecostal movement in the United Kingdom Assemblies of God Elim Apostolic Church, that sort of thing. 

00:18:43 Stephen 

So the idea of it really is. 

00:18:45 Stephen 

Is just to hopefully make church history interesting. 

00:18:50 Stephen 

Yes, I know for a fact when I've taught it, students have often thought that church history was a little bit boring. 

00:18:59 Stephen 

Looking at figures from the past and isn't. 

00:19:02 Stephen 

It the future. 

00:19:03 Stephen 

That we need to be caught up with. 

00:19:05 Stephen 

Why look at dusty figures from the past? 

00:19:08 Stephen 

What you know, that's all happened now and so. 

00:19:13 Stephen 

I I try to get my. 

00:19:15 Stephen 

Students and even through. 

00:19:16 Stephen 

The book to to realize that. 

00:19:19 Stephen 

Come, we don't live in history. 

00:19:22 Stephen 

We don't live in the past. 

00:19:24 Stephen 

But we have to learn from the past. 

00:19:27 Stephen 

Because we we often make make the mistake of recreating the wheel, and history does repeat itself, and I do believe, and it's hopefully warts of all account, not just the highlights of church history but also some low lights and some things that went. 

00:19:45 Stephen 

Wrong, and I think we. 

00:19:47 Stephen 

You need to be brave enough to tackle. 

00:19:50 Stephen 

Some of the things that. 

00:19:52 Stephen 

The the church has got. 

00:19:53 Stephen 

Wrong and we need to face up to that and learn from it. 

00:19:56 Stephen 

And hopefully I I look at that as well. 

00:19:58 Stephen 

uJst so that we don't make the same mistakes that that people in the past made, so it it's really just to take people. 

00:20:09 Stephen 

Perhaps people that. 

00:20:10 Stephen 

Don't know much about church history or very little and try and take the sting out of it. 

00:20:18 Stephen 

Try and make it accessible and read and we. 

00:20:22 Stephen 

Readable and hopefully to give them a taste of some of the the good bits of church history so that they can then follow that through and study it in more depth in. 

00:20:35 Stephen 

You know, in in the future so that that's the idea of it really. 

00:20:41 Stephen 

From Pentecostal to the Pentecostal movement and a 

00:20:45 Stephen 

Book I greatly enjoyed writing actually, and I I still enjoy teaching. 

00:20:50 Stephen 

Thing that that subject to people that 

00:20:53 Stephen 

want to know? 

00:20:54 Stephen 

About about history and I. 

00:20:56 Nicola 

Really enjoyed reading it and I got really excited about when we talked about the Welsh Revival and also in 1907 times backwards and came to Newcastle. So what I was excited about what, what would? 

00:21:10 Nicola 

It take for this to happen again for a revival to happen in in in these places. 

00:21:17 Nicola 

Again, you know. 

00:21:18 Stephen 

Yeah, yeah, that's. 

00:21:19 Stephen 

Certainly yeah, that's actually a subject that I'm, a question 

00:21:24 Stephen 

I'm asked quite a lot as. 

00:21:25 Stephen 

A as a. 

00:21:26 Stephen 

Historian, and especially when I write about revival. 

00:21:30 Stephen 

Uh, because we all we all want to see it again and when we read of people like Evan Roberts and and the Welsh Revival and we, we read about the great awakenings that broke out and and and Wesley in this country and we we do long to see it again and I. 

00:21:50 Stephen 

I think there's a. 

00:21:50 Stephen 

Few things that we need to. 

00:21:53 Stephen 

To sort of bear in mind really, when it comes to revival, 'cause there is this big debate on. 

00:21:59 Stephen 

On how much? 

00:22:00 Stephen 

Uh is of God and how much is of man and I. 

00:22:06 Stephen 

I just happen to take the the the the middle middle approach that actually it's both yeah and I don't know how much of 1 and how much of the other but I I do believe that God moves. 

00:22:20 Stephen 

Through his people. 

00:22:23 Stephen 

And even though he could do it on his own. 

00:22:26 Stephen 

And he builds his church through people and through very, very fallible people. 

00:22:33 Stephen 

People that make mistakes and that's something else that I've tried to bring out in the book. 

00:22:39 Stephen 

And we see. 

00:22:40 Stephen 

That through history. 

00:22:42 Stephen 

We see it actually in the pages of the Bible. 

00:22:45 Stephen 

And the New Testament and the book of acts. God using people who made mistakes and they they they were not sort of in the world's eyes very special people. 

00:22:57 Stephen 

Uhm, but there were people very open to God. 

00:23:01 Stephen 

And and and I I see a few sort of characteristic really of some of these people and I I noticed a few common denominators and it was though the the the people that God used were  

00:23:21 Stephen 

Prepared people. 

00:23:23 Stephen 

So before sort of, you know, revival. 

00:23:26 Stephen 

Broke out, God had to. 

00:23:28 StephenPPrepare certain people and you know we we hear a lot about the Welsh Revival and and 880,000 souls that came to Christ and. 

00:23:40 Stephen 

You know an 18 month period, but 

00:23:43 Stephen 

But God had to. 

00:23:44 Stephen 

Work on the heart of a man, Edward. 

00:23:46 Stephen 

Roberts for years before that happened, yeah. 

00:23:50 Stephen 

And the same with William J 

00:23:53 Stephen 

Seymour and Thes Azuza street outpouring, God had to work on that man before it happened. 

00:24:00 Stephen 

Uh, you know God will will use, uh, prepared people. 

00:24:04 Stephen 

And and the. 

00:24:05 Stephen 

Such principles of prayer were very important, seeking God and and I, I think. 

00:24:12 Stephen 

These people not having. 

00:24:13 Stephen 

An agenda saying God. 

00:24:15 Stephen 

You have to do it this way. 

00:24:16 Stephen 

Be, even though perhaps you did it in that way in the past, but God. 

00:24:22 Stephen 

Do something more way and being very open to how God wants to to do it, because we'll notice that there are characteristics that are similar. 

00:24:33 Stephen 

Or then we will. 

00:24:34 Stephen 

Rival, but it would also seem that every revival was also quite different. 

00:24:38 Stephen 

As well. 

00:24:41 Stephen 

You know God's have got a creativity and we expect him to do it AB and C. But often God will do it XY&Z and I think when we sort put God in a box saying God 100 years ago you did it this way. Therefore you have to do it that way. In a sense we try to. 

00:25:00 Stephen 

We recreate history exactly, then that's when it will probably go wrong, and so I think we have to be open to God doing something his way again. 

00:25:14 Stephen 

But there are. 

00:25:15 Stephen 

There are certain things that we can do. 

00:25:17 Stephen 

I think prayer is very important. 

00:25:19 Stephen 

Seeking God with repentance, all that sort of thing. 

00:25:24 

Right? 

00:25:24 Stephen 

It is very important, but allowing God to do it again in His way and also in his time. 

00:25:33 Stephen 

And so I I do think it's both, I think. 

00:25:36 Stephen 

It is God God have. 

00:25:38 Stephen 

To do it, we cannot recreate it, but there are certain things that we have to get ready for. 

00:25:46 Stephen 

You know, in our own. 

00:25:48 Stephen 

Hearts, and in the life of. 

00:25:49 Stephen 

The church as well. 

00:25:50 Nicola 

Thank you, that's that's that's brilliant. 

00:25:53 Nicola 

Thank you so much for answering those questions. 

00:25:56 Nicola 

I really appreciate it, so I'll let you go now and enjoy your day. 

00:26:00 Nicola 

Thank you. 

00:26:00 Stephen 

Bless, thank you. 

00:26:01 Stephen 

Thank you very much. 

00:26:02 Nicola 

Bye bye bye.